How emotions can impact estate planning

Transcript

Intro Speaker:

Hello, and welcome to Matters Beyond Wealth with your host, Leanne Kaufman, president and CEO of RBC Royal Trust. For most of us, talking about subjects like aging, late life, and estate planning isn’t easy. That’s why we’re going to help get the conversation started on this podcast while benefiting from the insights and expertise of some of the country’s top experts. We want to bring you information today that will help to protect you and your family in the future. Now, here’s your host, Leanne.

Leanne Kaufman:

It is very difficult to remove emotion from pretty much every aspect of our lives. Work, family and other relationships are all emotional, but perhaps fewer things are more emotional than planning for our legacy, particularly when there are strong family dynamics to navigate.

Hello, I’m Leanne Kaufman, and welcome to RBC Wealth Management Canada’s Matters Beyond Wealth. With me today is Carolyn Stern, a certified Emotional Intelligence Expert, a professor and CEO of EI Experience. She is also an award-winning author. Carolyn’s focus and passion has been on teaching emotional intelligence, leadership and team building, and her emotional intelligence courses have been adopted by top universities in North America. She’s been helping our teams within RBC Royal Trust to get better connected with our own emotional intelligence so that we can better understand and service our clients. She specializes in helping individuals get unstuck, learn how to connect authentically and communicate effectively. Emotional intelligence can be exceptionally helpful for difficult conversations, including those with family members when it comes to estate planning, caregiving, and sharing wealth with younger generations.

Carolyn, thanks for being here with me today to talk about why emotional intelligence is helpful in estate planning conversations and why this matters beyond wealth.

Carolyn Stern:

Thanks so much for having me, Leanne.

Leanne Kaufman:

Now, we may all have an idea of what the phrase emotional intelligence means, but what does it mean to you?

Carolyn Stern:

I think simply it means being intelligent about your emotions. It means being in the driver’s seat of those emotions rather than letting our emotions run amuck. Quite simply, it’s recognizing that we feel things, it’s understanding where those feelings come from, it’s labeling them accurately, it’s expressing them constructively, and then it’s regulating them appropriately. And that’s easier said than done, as you know.

Leanne Kaufman:

So, do you think there’s a generational gap when it comes to this emotional intelligence and understanding, expressing, managing our emotions?

Carolyn Stern:

Yes, absolutely. First of all, I think collectively, I think both generations or all generations don’t have a good understanding of our emotions because let’s be honest, none of us have ever had an emotional education in schools and probably not at home either. So in terms of understanding, I think there’s not much difference across generations. But what I do see in terms of a big generational gap is that the older generations, I hate to tell you Leanne, like you and me—

Leanne Kaufman:

Wait a minute.

Carolyn Stern:

… have been raised in environments where emotional expression was the enemy. Particularly showing vulnerability or discussing sensitive topics was not encouraged or deemed appropriate. Whereas in contrast, the younger generation have grown up in a cultural shift that values emotional authenticity, vulnerability, and open conversations about mental health. This divergent really in comfort levels with emotional expression can create a gap in understanding and communicating between generations. What I notice in terms of managing emotions, let’s be honest, all of us with our life experience have become more emotionally intelligent as we age. We learn to deal with life’s daily challenges. But the younger generation, the studies show that they are lower at problem solving, lower at independence, and lower at stress tolerance than any generation before them. Why? Because they grew up with phones and helicopter parents.

Leanne Kaufman:

So money and for that matter, many assets come with some emotional attachments. Talk to us about how you think EI or emotional intelligence can both shape our decisions and help us to make better decisions.

Carolyn Stern:

Well, I think emotions impact our decision-making abilities every day. We feel choice A is better than choice B, and therefore we make those decisions accordingly. They directly influence our decisions, whether it’s subconsciously or unconsciously running in the background of our minds. And then let’s be honest, our emotional history and makeup can also determine our course of action or inaction. For instance, if you’re emotionally dependent upon others to help you solve problems, you might lack confidence in making decisions without external validation. Or perhaps you might have narcissistic tendencies and need to be right. You may squash the ideas of others to promote your own ideas, even if they aren’t as strong or as worthy.

I think the key is strong emotions, in particular with estate planning, can lead to rash choices. For instance, anger and embarrassment can make us more susceptible to high risk and low reward decisions. And researchers suspect that decision making skills and rational capabilities are harmed when we have intense negative emotions. We really need to be aware the role emotions play to help us solve problems under pressure more effectively.

Leanne Kaufman:

So, I see this in the context often arising on the death of a loved one. The business we get involved in is typically someone has passed, so the family is grieving, the friends, the network is grieving. So you’re already in this place of negative emotions, and then you add money to that, which probably people would not immediately identify as being an emotional asset, but it maybe doesn’t bring out the best in people, and now they’re making emotional decisions. It’s shockingly sad how many stories I hear about families ripped apart because of money and inheritance, and siblings who no longer speak either because of something the executor did or didn’t do, or because of the way things played out from a sharing of assets perspective.

So, let’s talk about that a little bit and how maybe we could leverage some of this emotional intelligence to have better conversations ahead of time with parents, grandparents, children, whomever, that whichever direction we’re thinking of, and try to avoid some of that strife at the moment of the grief. What do you think about that?

Carolyn Stern:

I think the key is to understand what you’re feeling and then to take a pause and figure out what is that feeling telling me about me, about the situation, about others. I’d start by cultivating self-awareness of your own emotions, your own biases, maybe your assumptions that relate to estate planning, but I’d also for yourself recognize any potential triggers or preconceived notions that you may have that may influence your decision.

I think the first step is self-awareness, to approach the discussion with more self-awareness of yourself and others. But the second is really gauging and actively listening in those conversations. So giving your full attention to the person who’s speaking. Remember, 55 percent of what people hear is body language. What is your body saying in that situation? Pay attention to the nonverbal cues, maintain eye contact, practice empathy, and listen not only to the words being said, but also to the underlying emotions and concerns being expressed. I think that the key is when you’re having these conversations. Paraphrase what you heard back, try to get an accurate understanding to show that you genuinely care about what their perspective is.

I think the other thing is you got to validate people’s feelings. No one can make you feel anything, Leanne. You do that all by yourself. So I think you’ve got to watch your language. You can’t say things like, “You made me feel…” or, “When you did this…” I would probably start with saying, “What I heard you say was this is important and this is why.” So empathize with their viewpoints and validate their feelings in it to create that safe and open environment for dialogue.

I think also to foster an atmosphere of trust and respect. Is everyone able to speak their truth and say what’s important to them, and their perspectives are valued?

And I think the other thing is discussing the family’s shared values and the kind of the long-term goals. Encourage conversations about how estate planning can align with those family values and serve the collective interests of the family. That can be challenging, but identify some common objectives that can foster collaboration.

And then I think that the key is we’ve got to practice patience and flexibility throughout this process. So understanding that it may take multiple discussions to reach a consensus or make decisions, but be open to revisiting it and adjusting your plans as the circumstance or family dynamics evolve. I think the key is for the goal of estate planning conversation is to ensure that there’s clarity that we understand what the person wants with their money. Transparency, like, “Let’s be open, here’s how I’m feeling about their wishes. Whether I like their wishes or not, this is how I’m feeling about it.” But also harmony within the family because I can only imagine what you hear on a daily basis about these choices and how they’ve ruined families forever. I think applying these emotional intelligence skills that I’ve just mentioned can really help navigate the emotional complexities involved and foster more productive and meaningful discussions.

Leanne Kaufman:

Yeah, there’s in the moment when something’s happened discussions, and then there’s how do we get in front of some of this? For example, many adult children are providing primary care for elderly parents or they’re helping support that caregiving and that can come with a lot of emotions and start to draw things out and maybe create ill feeling between siblings because that load isn’t being shared equally or whatever the case may be. What tips would you offer for those who find themselves dealing with some uncertainty or some strife in the emotions in that context?

Carolyn Stern:

Well, I think caring for elderly parents—by the way, I’m doing that myself right now. So my mother lives with me and I feel a wide range of emotions, and it’s important to acknowledge and address those emotions in a healthy manner. So I think the first is, again, it always comes back to the same thing: recognize and accept your emotions. You’re going to feel things. There’s lots of a myriad of emotions that you’re going to be experiencing. It’s normal to feel a mix of emotions such as guilt, sadness, frustration, and even like you said, resentment. “Why am I having to do it but my sister isn’t?” Understand that these emotions are valid, but again, every emotion provides us a gift. It tells us something. So frustration, for instance, what causes frustration? Unmet expectations. What causes anger? Injustice or unfairness. So the problem is identifying, am I frustrated or am I angry? Because how many of us, me included, Leanne, have been frustrated but shown it as anger. And then the problem is the family thinks you’re angry, but in actuality you’re frustrated.

Leanne Kaufman:

And if you haven’t had the conversation to clear the air on what the expectations are or understand each other’s expectations, then it’s fairly easy to slide into frustration.

Carolyn Stern:

Yes, and I think the thing is also is to seek emotional support, reach out to trusted friends, family members, and even support groups who can provide a listening ear and an emotional support. It’s hard to see someone you love deteriorate. Sharing your feelings and concerns with others can really empathize to provide a sense of relief and understanding.

I think the other thing that I noticed that a lot of caregivers do—you know the plane’s going down, what do they say? Save yourself before you save the children—a lot of caregivers deplete their own energy while taking care of others. So I think it’s really important that you take care of your physical, mental, and emotional health. Take time to relax, recharge and reduce your stress. Also set realistic expectations, understanding that being a caregiver is challenging and demanding role.

I think the other thing is practice emotional regulation techniques. For some of you, when you’re emotional, you fight; for others of us, we flight; and others we freeze. So figure out what would work for you. Whether that’s exercise, mindfulness meditation, and I think the most important thing is educate yourself. Gain the knowledge about the specific health conditions that your parents are facing or an elderly person in your family is facing, and understand their needs and the available resources that can help them so that you can make an informed decision and feel more in control.

Leanne Kaufman:

Yeah, there’s no shortage of rabbit holes we could go down when it comes to emotions and the estate planning and late life and caregiving aspects, but maybe we’ll just take it back to a little more macro level for a minute before we wrap up. You talked about the generational differences and how us, the old ones—I don’t know how that’s still stuck in my head somehow—it wasn’t the thing to do it. Vulnerability was not an attractive or sought-after characteristic. I would say that I’ve seen a big change in that in particular in recent years, and particularly through the pandemic. But this whole idea of emotional intelligence I think has also been around for some time. But what is it about this moment and now that’s making these conversations so much more important?

Carolyn Stern:

Well the global challenge brought by COVID has provided us an unparalleled opportunity.

I think the other thing too is the advent of technology and social media has changed how people communicate when we interact. Those advancements, how you connect with people doesn’t look the same way as it did before.

I think another thing that has been quite prevalent is mental health awareness. There’s a growing emphasis on mental health and wellbeing. I think relationship success, in order to build mutually satisfying relationships, you need to prioritize the quality of those relationships. So there needs to be a greater recognition of the importance of emotional intelligence, which is all about understanding, empathy, communicating with others.

And I think also for parents, parents are starting to realize that they need to use that for their child development. And so I think parents are realizing that I need to teach my kids these skills on how to better function emotionally and socially, which can ultimately lead to better performance and future success.

Leanne Kaufman:

Carolyn, if our audience today only remembers one message from you as it relates to having all these things in mind when having conversations with their family or interpersonal relationships around estate planning, estate administration, or illness of a loved one, what would that one thing be?

Carolyn Stern:

If I could tell all of your listeners who are struggling to get the results they want with estate planning one thing, it would be this: don’t be afraid of your emotions or of those of your close family members. Feelings are not facts. They are not good or bad, right or wrong, they’re just feelings. They’re an emotional experience and reaction to a person, thing, or situation. And even though those feelings are an emotional experience or an emotionally triggered reaction of something, they can be full of wisdom if you look for the gift that they provide.

Leanne Kaufman:

Well, thank you, Carolyn for joining me today, for sharing all of your insights and highlighting the importance of emotional intelligence and estate planning, and to really help navigate these family dynamics and why all of this matters beyond wealth.

Carolyn Stern:

Thanks for having me, Leanne.

Leanne Kaufman:

You can find out more about Carolyn Stern on LinkedIn or at carolynstern.com.

If you enjoyed this episode or you’d like to help support the podcast, please share it with others, post about it on social media, or leave a rating and review. Until next time, I’m Leanne Kaufman. Thank you for joining us.

Outro speaker:

Whether you are planning for your own estate, the needs of your family or business, or you are an executor for a loved one’s estate, we can help guide you, simplify the complex, and support your life’s vision. Partner with RBC Royal Trust and ensure your legacy will thrive for generations to come. Leave a legacy, not a burden™. Visit rbc.com/royaltrust.

Thank you for joining us on this episode of Matters Beyond Wealth. If you would like more information about RBC Royal Trust, please visit our website at rbc.com/royaltrust.